Our loony extremist blogger by the name of Elfiefuddin has supported his weird opinions with lunatic arguments. Let’s examine one by one.
For a logical person like me, no matter how much I disagree with the teachings of their belief, including the fact that this fler claims himself to be God, I respect their right to believe in whatever they want to believe in. The authority must not act against them unless they commit any crime which breaks the law.
Islam as federation’s religion is just that. It doesn’t mean that our country is an Islamic state (but we can call ours a Muslim-majority nation). It is not a key for Islam to interfere the daily running of government or the decision-making process.
Many have made the same mistake. They judge people’s behaviour from their own sets of values. So what if Islam says this and Hindu says that about what someone else do ? What is important is that this fler, no matter how ridiculous things he does, has never broken any law. And even if he has, who empowers the mobsters to raid and torch their village ?
menj1980: i still dont understand why u support this loony from kpg batu 13. he goes against ur faith too. i will have the same dialogue with anyone, even rajan seri also, if he was willing to discuss this.
Shimania: see, it is his right as a citizen of the nation and a human being in the world to believe in what he believes, nevermind it’s against my belief. but he has the right to live the way he wish / choose. that doesnt mean i like or i believe his teachings.
menj1980: well he claims to be God and you believe Jesus (pbuh) is God. doesnt that mean he contradict u? or maybe he’s Jesus?
Shimania: see, one thing i am different from PAS is, while PAS cannot allow ppl to think freely and must conform to what they preach, i allow everyone to think for themselves freely.
menj1980: thinking freely doesn’t give the right for you to create your own cult.
Shimania: ok i have told u i dont believe in his teachings. that doesnt mean i have the right to curb his rights of choosing what he wants. the fact that he chooses his own belief doesnt mean he has to be arrested. yes by claiming to be god he has contradicted some other religions, but that’s his own choice made under his free will. he has not commited any criminal act in doing so. why u cannot understand my argument ?
menj1980: i know ur saying that u ignore but that doesnt mean that what u do is correct.
Shimania: hey, i didnt mean i ignore him. it’s his constitutional right to choose what he want. and i agree that he can do what he likes under the constitution. there’s still constitution in this country, let’s not forget.
menj1980: i know there’s a constitution, but the constitution doesnt provide for every Tom, Dick or Harry to make his own cult. balance it with Rukunegara.
Shimania: did he do anything against constitution ?
menj1980: yeah, he made himself to be Gawd. does the Constitution say that anyone can become God?
Shimania: you didnt answer what i asked. did he do anything unconstitutional or unlawful ?
menj1980: i just answered u. he made himself to be God…thats against constitution.
Shimania: i dont see any provision in constitution saying someone cannot claim to be god.
menj1980: i dont see any that says that he can, either. but if you check agaiin, you will see that since Islam is official religion, anything that Islam determines goes.
Shimania: there’s freedom of religion. if he wanna set up his own religion in which he is the god, what’s wrong ?
menj1980: it goes against the spirit of Islam as official religion as well as Rukunegara. this is if you want to talk about it in secular terms.
Shimania: NO. Islam as the religion of federation as stipulated in constitution only means it carries ceremonial roles, not any decision making roles.
menj1980: my reasons for rejecting Ayah Pin goes much more further than man-made laws.
Shimania: dont try to tell me ur religion is more powerful than anyone else’s religion.
menj1980: it doesnt say that Islam is relegated to “ceremonial” roles…it only says that Islam is the official relgion, but other religions (note the word “religion”, not cult) are allowed as well. we have to determine first whether Ayah Pin’s crap qualifies as “religion” or not. so u tell me…is his nonsense reached a “religion” status or is it merely a cult?
Shimania: and now you are judging ppl from your own religion’s religious perspective. it’s alright for me for u to see things from ur colored lenses. but if you want to punish people thru your set of values, then that’s unacceptable.
menj1980: if its cult, then its not provided for in the Constitution. i already told you, what i am telling you now is purely from secular perspective, not religious. this is what i see from the secular perspective…even the secular laws dont support ayah pin’s tenure as “Gawd”
Shimania: you can ask Cobbolt Commission or Tunku Abdul Rahman Putra al-Haj what’s Islam’s status in the nation. what pas want for islam is the status they want to achieve, but until they rule, status quo maintains.
menj1980: well, u tell me…is Sky Kingdom a cult or a religion? i think we need to answer this first. from the history of this nation, cults are pretty much banned…or otherwise Al-Arqam and Al-Maunah will still be running around free.
Shimania: ok u emphasis heavily on the difference between cult and religion. but tell me, how would this be dealt with in other countries for example USA, UK, Japan, Taiwan, HK… etc ? will they see Ayah Pink as breaking any law ? yesh and i am telling you there’s no legal basis to ban them. however funny their teachings are.
menj1980: u already know what happened to Falun Gong and Aum sect.
Shimania: common people have a strong mind not to be influenced by crazy people, unless yours is so weak therefore need special protection from a powderful condom.
menj1980: so why didnt u accuse China or Japan of not respecting “freedom of religion” (whatever that is)?
Shimania: Falungong didnt do anything wrong. they are victims of violence. their teachings funny doesnt mean people can injure their followers or torch their houses. in Aum Shinrikyo’s case, those who spread sarin in subway was detained because they committed crime. later others renamed Aum to something else, and Japanese govt allows it to operate freely, as long as they dont go against law. in Falungong’s case of course i bidas chinese communist for restricting it and assulting it. the same goes for the restriction on roman catholics and other religions slapped onto them by the communist.
menj1980: of course banning other religions is wroing. RC is not a “cult”, its a religion.
Shimania: f.y.i., communist didnt crush falungong because of it being a sect, but rather because it has the ability to mobilize and organise crowds, which communist is afraid of.
menj1980: okay, bad example. what about Rev Moon’s cult? i think they are banned in several countries.
Shimania: and don’t overlook the example i gave u earlier, that as long as the new Aum Shinrikyo dont carry out any criminal acts, Japanese govt lets it operate freely.
menj1980: http://blog.menj.org/index.php/archives/2005/08/04/difference-between-religion-and-cult/, well i still think aum should be banned, no matter what, but that’s Japan’s perogative, as long as they dont carry their nonsense here, i’m fine.
Shimania: ok regardless you call it religion or cult, the people can choose what they want to believe. and i acknowledge that they should enjoy this right.
menj1980: see the link i gave above, hehehe… religions is fine, cults is what i am against.
Shimania: already commented.
menj1980: ok.
