The following is the online conversation between blogger Shin (nicknamed Shimania) and crazy fella Mohd Elfiefuddin Nieshaem Juferi (nicknamed Lordjerec), supporter of Violence and Torture in the names of Jihad and Hudud.

lordjerec: Keadilan does not say anything about ayah pin, u got no official statement ke?

Shimania: hmm PSM ade kuar statement.

lordjerec: u got their website?

Shimania: Blatant Injustice on Ayah Pink and His Followers.

lordjerec: well ayah pin is destroyed now, good… hmmph…stupid PSM, thinking crazed fella is freedom of religion. BN is doing something right..for once

Shimania: ayah pin is funny. that he claims to be god and banknotes can fall from sky and all that. but you cannot simply jail ppl for their belief.

lordjerec: dunno about bank notes, but yes he thinks hes god, also thinks he got a “cabinet” in the sky, its obvious he’s making it up.

Shimania: yeah this time govt can jail ayah pin followers, next time believers of other religions will kena. buddhists, christians, hindus…

lordjerec: its got nothing to do with “belief”… organised religions are not sects or deviants.

Shimania: what’s wrong for ppl to follow ayah pin ? how can ayah pin be a threat to national security ? it’s the same way chinese communist goes after falungong.

lordjerec: those u mentioned are religions, not cults… we have to accord respect to them… islam forbids us from mistreating them. cults like ayah pin however can be fought against.

Shimania: yeah but 1) what’s wrong with cults…. and 2) why not going after other cults like those my cousins attend ?

lordjerec: first he claims to be god. then what else? he claims to be ruler of Malaysia? another al-Maunah? in that case, do u agree if we allow Jehovah Witnesses here or Mormons? in Malaysia they are officially banned, because your church told the govt to ban them

Shimania: i see nothing wrong of al maunah or al arqam… as long as they dont disturb the rest and commit any criminal act. again, i dont see anything wrong to jehovah witness and mormons. there had been jehovah witnesses ppl coming door to door to my home, asking for donation. i gave them. u also say shia muslim is deviant, but they rule iran and iraq. and they are officially members of OIC

lordjerec: shi’a is deviant but doesnt mean that we cannot cooperate with them.

Shimania: so if we can cooperate with shia eventhough its a deviant group, then why cant we leave ayah pin alone ? whether ayah pin or shafii sunni islam gets more support, it depends on whether ppl feel which is more right. if govt thinks shafii sunni islam is more right, govt has nothing to fear because after all majority of ppl will follow

lordjerec: thats not the way it works in sunni islam lah. all sunni schools are valid…it just so happens that the majority are shafi’ie

Shimania: yeah but that doesnt mean we have to destroy the community of others

lordjerec: u have to look at our history lah, “sunni” is just a label, to distinguish the orthodox group from the others

Shimania: ok tell me. answer my question. why ayah pin group cannot live peacefully, even if they are deviant and ayah pin claims to be god ?

lordjerec: many reasons. 1. Ayah Pin is an apostate, and apostates are criminals under Islamic law. 2. Ayah Pin claims to be God, this goes against the aqeedah of the majority in his area. 3. He claims to “unite” all religions, it will cause discomfort amongst the religions and cause instability

Shimania: but he didnt commit any crime in 1) and 2). and didnt form a threat to the nation.

lordjerec: 4. If he’s claiming to be God, then what else he’s going to be? The Agong? he hasnt made any threat yet, i know, but he has the potential to be one

Shimania: f.y.i., the so called “buddhist temple” deviant group that my cousins attend also claims to be the union of all 5 major religions in the world. islam, buddha, taoism, christian, confusion. why didnt govt take any action against them ? i know all the locations of their centres. in KL, in JB, in Singapore… tell me, shd they be arrested ?

lordjerec: what is the name of this group?

Shimania: hmm good question. their names changed wherever they go. my cousin once forcefully “invited” me to their JB center in Taman Ungku Tun Aminah, and a lot of UTM dudes there…the generasi pelapis of our cemerlang gemilang terminang nation…. masuk deviant grp

lordjerec: did the founder claim to be “God” as well?

Shimania: doesnt matter…. founder is in taiwan. they go for pilgrimage in their HQ in taiwan. but my question, why never govt take action ?

lordjerec: hmm…they should. in an Islamic state such deviants will not be tolerated.

Shimania: ok good assurance from u. back to ur statement earlier, that u admitted that ayah pin did not pose any threat to nation, but potentially… that means, their arrest is a preventive detention… which is why we have ISA. so, again, u have proven that you support preventive detention of ppl who did not commit any crime… yes ?

lordjerec: no i dont agree that we must use ISA. some ppl i know have suggested it but i opposed. i want them charged in court and tried for their apostasy

Shimania: ok but death for apostasy is in quran not in law. you cannot rule with a religion’s bible but law.

lordjerec: doesnt matter…put them in jail for all i care, for now. as long as they dont cause public tension and instability

Shimania: they have never cause public tension and instability anyway. you see, in this way, u r not diff from the zalim BN at all. anyone who dont agree with u, put into jail using whatever law.

lordjerec: doesnt mean that they will not in the future. hmmmph…we are talking about a deviant sect here

Shimania: i dont think they will cause any. yeah not all deviant sect will spread sarin gas in mrt.

lordjerec: so if ayah pin ask them to drink poison, only then will u act? what is going to stop them from doing that?

Shimania: pas even want to kill those who convert to other religions, dont u think pas is posing more danger to the society ? so can I use ISA against pas to prevent them from killing converts ?

lordjerec: in fact there is nothing in their “religion” that will stop them from drinking poison or throw sarin gas in KT. i already told u, i dislike ISA.

Shimania: ok u tell me, can we use the same measure that was used against ayah pin to prevent him from asking his followers to drink poisin, to prevent pas from killing innocent malaysians who convert ?

lordjerec: you already know what our stand on apostasy is.

Shimania: you too know our stand. jailing or killing ppl for their belief is ridiculous.

lordjerec: in fact by preventing muslims to execute our laws, doesnt that mean u are infringing our religious freedom?

Shimania: and i am chatting with this crazy boy with ridiculous ideas. 1) the law u said is yours, was not from god but rather the interpretation of ppl from few lines in the book. nobody can claim that their interpretation of how the laws shd be carried out is without error. so it’s not law of god but law of the interpreters. 2) nation has its laws and cannot just pakai some religions’ laws sesuka hati. it’s our advisor Glorious Grandfather Anwar Ibrahim who said we are not going to support Islamic state and Hudud law. so, you gonna accuse GGAI of infringing your religious freedom ?

lordjerec: DSAI is entitled to his thinking…but he didnt say that States that want Hudud law cannot implement, so if Kelantan and Terengganu wants hudud, its their right. oh btw i’m forwarding to u invitation from TMNet.

Shimania: yeah in the Harktalk, he said ppl can decide if they want hudud… if others can win biarkanlahsaja. but at least, keadilan wont support that.

lordjerec: we respect your opinion, but we have our own principles.

Shimania: and he also said that there must be freedom of religion in the first place. because not everyone want hudud.

lordjerec: i agree to that. there’s no problem with that.

Shimania: so if some ppl in malaysia want hudud, they must respect the freedom of religion of all malaysians first.

lordjerec: yes, but if we execute hudud, the critics must accept that right too.

Shimania: not if you dont accord the freedom of religion to the people.

lordjerec: dont worry, i addressed this yesterday in my letter to M’kini.

Shimania: but Pas dont respect freedom of religion.

lordjerec: well have u seen churches. temples, etc. closed in Kelantan? have u seen all non-Muslims forcefully converted to Islam in Kelantan? the largest Buddha statue inMalaysia is in Kelantan.

Shimania: but muslims were banned from converting and be threatened with murder.

lordjerec: thats part of the hudud. its our right to deal with them.

Shimania: yeah but if your hudud berlanggar with constitution then it shd be invalid. that’s how laws operate. nothing can go against the highest law of the land. no it’s not your right to deal with ppl who exercise their freedom of religion.

… Elfie’s first profile was abandoned and from here onwards he appears as Menj1980.

menj1980: so there shouldnt be any probs.

Shimania: huh ? shdnt be any prob in what ?

menj1980: in implementation of hudud lah!

Shimania: how ? hudud is against constitution in 2 ways mainly. 1) nation cannot have 2 parallel legal systems. 2) murdering converts is against freedom of religion. u see, even pas kelantan has realised that murdering converts, moral policing and hudud is not the way to win election. ppl dunwan rhetorics. they want development. they wanna fill up their tummy. they want composite index to sore high into the sky. they want our economy to be competitive and dynamic. why haven’t u realised that ?

menj1980: there’s no problems with that but religion must have a place too. who says i dont want development, want to go hungry or dont want to main saham?

Shimania: yeah but only govt which can deliver will win. those who promise all the nonsense and infringe ppl’s liberty wont win.

menj1980: haiyoh we’ve been thru this…

Shimania: that’s why i am suprise that u wanna revisit it :-) did u read what joseline tan wrote abt annuar musa ? they provide both local services as well as preparing a great development plan for kelantan.

menj1980: u already know why state govt in Kelantan under TG can only do so much… umno’s way of sogok wang to people. usual underhand tactic.

Shimania: i am not talking abt only kelate state. pas wanna get its hand in federal, but with all the barbaric threats and killing and stoning to death, they wont get anywhere except hell. oh if umno provides development, its sogok wang. if pas provides development, it is shincere ?

menj1980: u see, umno’s tactic is to starve Opposition states to death. and then sogok them with wang so that the grateful peopel will vote for them next time. it happened in Sabah and Terengganu…

Shimania: i too get very annoyed when ppl say pas in kelate who provide assistance to mother tongue schools or let other religions to build biggest this and that is just an inshincere way to capture their heart….. therefore, similarly, i am equally angry when ppl say whatever umno do is sogok wang… yes i agree that. but now, annuar musa has admit that starving the state wont win them hearts. only those who can provide development will. they want another expansion for airport, better roads and facilities, and a regional port in pasir puteh. in all of these projects they must go thru govt and cannot come in the form of wang ehsan directly to the people so u need not worry.

menj1980: u’re hearing this from the horse’s mouth so to speak, an ex-UMNOputra.

Shimania: but this is a crazy horse who wanna kill fellow malaysians just because they choose their religions freely.

menj1980: crazy horses dont go with dialogues with CEO of TMNet.

Shimania: the thing is, you see, pas can use technology. even TG Haji Hadi played with keypad on his laptop. but that doesnt modernise their mind. they are still living in the past. they cannot fit into a modern liberal multiple society. one of the bedrock of democratic society is we respect each other’s choise. so how can one be killed because he choose christianity or any religion ?

menj1980: hmmph… we’re going back to square one again…

Shimania: that’s because u refuse to open up ur mind and realise what actually the country needs.

menj1980: for now, we need to get rid of people like Ayah Pin first before we can progress, thats what the country needs to do now.

Shimania: at least, in the case of PKS in indonesia, they said they wanna look for a model in islamic state, which is not currently available. and they denied that islamic state means there must be hudud and all the cruelty. problem with pas is, they dont let us know what kind of islamic state they want and keep on emphasising on hudud, so of coz ppl will link them up with taleban and saudi and u cannot blame them.

menj1980: that doesnt mean their model is the correct one.

Shimania: ayah pin’s existence… i dont know why u think they are a barrier for progress. do you blame all the traffic jam and rape of mother nature and corruption and pollution and price hike on ayah pin ? you see, why do we have to claim that ours is correct and theirs is wrong ? why cant everybody choose what they think is correct ? nothing wrong with pas choose pas model and pks choosing pks model… choose one that suits your environment.

menj1980: or lock me up?

Shimania: you are entitled to ur rights but u cannot forcefully force ppl to follow what u want. and i am also telling u ur way wont win u power in the central. ppl are afraid of that.

menj1980: hmm…

Shimania: pas has realised its old way wont win it any power in the center. have u realised it ?

menj1980: i know, thats why got this “rebranding” thing.

Shimania: rebranding is useless if the rotten core is not being replaced by fresh ones.

menj1980: haiyoh…nearly all of them are new faces

Shimania: yah but we need new mindset too. no point new bottle old wine. they must discard the extremism.

menj1980: hmm… anyway i have to go… dad marah pulak… bye.

As usual, whenever Elfiefuddin cannot find a satisfactory answer to Shin’s queries, the best way would be asking his dad to bring him home. Perhaps Tuan Haji Juferi should seriously consider sending his kid to Hospital Bahagia Ulu Kinta or Hospital Permai Tampoi for a throughout treatment. I will generously sponsor Elfie the one way bus fare.